Talk:Nigger/Archive 5

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Political usage

I could cite at least one or two examples of people using the word "nigger" as something of a slur against racists - you use the word to project racist attitudes onto another person which you believe them to hold. I've heard it once or twice but I'd like to know if it's a notable and frequent enough usage to warrant comment. --Jammoe (talk) 18:01, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes. People do this to me all the time in political debates. I've never once, in my entire life, used the word nigger out loud, nor in writing for that matter except as a quote, but I'm a Republican and Democrats will always say things like "so Soap*, what're you gonna do when the nigger gets in power?" etc etc. *not my real name of course Soap ^Talk/_{Contributions} 13:36, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Good point, but also, even whites are called nigger among their African-American friends. It seems to be acceptable within the presence of agreeable relationships. For instance, a black friend of mine would call another white person "his nigger" (ie. his friend or buddy). And then sometimes, although there would need to be proof provided, people have used the word nigger just to describe something else, race unrelated. It's like how other people substitute a word for another. ie. "Move that joint over here." Doesn't mean they are talking about a real illegal drug joint. Or calling someone "guy". I've heard people say, that nigger is broke or I dropped that nigger. This is unrelated to "nigger-rigged or "renigged" (this is from a real non-racist word reneged which is almost always mispronounced and quoted). [1] Most of this type of talk is done in more urban-related areas usually as slang. See entire usage: [2] At any rate, I did a search online and found plenty of sources/citations for the following statement someone put in the article (not to mention many can just look at a magazine, t.v. show and/or album and see it's that way): "Today, the implied racism of the term is so strong that the use of nigger in most situations is a social taboo.[citation needed] Many American magazines and newspapers will not even print the word in full, instead using "n*gg*r", "n*ger", "n——", or "the N-word."[citation needed]" 2legit2quit2 (talk) 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

This is where white people tend to mix things up a bit. Black people rarely call each other niggers. The word they use is nigga...which is not derogatory like the word nigger. Calling someone a nigga or my nigga is the same as calling ones white friends bud or dude or calling ones black friends bro. Though whites hear it they cant tell the difference because most dont speak slang and when they hear the word nigga they only believe they mean nigger. They become confused because they don't understand why black people call each other it all the time and white people cant say it. Simple fact of the matter is it's not the same word. XnoXes (talk) 23:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

It is not different, it's the same. I'm black and I don't want anybody calling me the n-word. There's no difference between the two. It's the same. Are you going to say "yes" and "yeah" and "you" and "ya" are different? I will say to any person of any color to not use that term towards me. It's also disrespectful to our history. Urabahn (talk) 17:01, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• Why does it say in the first paragraph the word is considered offensive in "certain2 usages. Surely its offensive all the time? Also, good idea to lock the site. O.F 00:01, 24 June 2009 User:87.232.66.242

Portuguese word "negro"

"Negro" in Portuguese and Spanish is not a derogative term, as it is stated in the article. It is the word for the color black. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.226.77 (talk) 15:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Also in many italian dialects:Montenegro#Name. In Italy the word "negro/i", used to refer to black people from Africa, was not considered derogatory until the '90s, when african immigrants began to take it as an insult.--84.222.239.52 (talk) 19:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I've heard that rene is considered an offensive term for blacks in the Spanish-speaking areas of the Caribbean (Dominican Republic, Cuba, maybe some others) but it doesnt seem to appear in any dictionary. Also, negrito rather than negro often appears. I dont think either of them is considered offensive by themselves, but sometimes it can be offensive just to mention someone's race. It doesnt work as well in English because you dont usually say "hey look, blacks!!", but in Romance languages, adjectives and nouns are the same, so you can do things like that. Though, by no means is it limited to black people. Soap ^Talk/_{Contributions} 13:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Russian word "Negr" [Негр]

In Russian language, word "Негр" (phonetically sounds "Negr" and means "dark-skinned person") is widely used in a common every-day language, including national news channels, newspapers, schools and official documents. In addition, Russian passport format requires person's nationality or ethnicity to be clearly endorsed on one of the pages, such as "Russian", "Jewish", "Estonian", etc. Therefore the word "Негр" is officially used to describe person's ethnicity in their passport in case this person happened to be a Russian citizen of an African origin.

The meaning of this word does not imply any kind of derogatory bias and by no means relate to the American or British meaning of the word "Nigger" or "Negro" which over the years became almost synonymous with the words like "slave", "underprivileged" or "second citizen".

Sadly, in United States Russian emigrants to not change their lexicon while speaking Russian in reference to black persons which sounds very much like English word "Negro". Needless to say that this creates a lot of potentially dangerous misunderstandings from the side of black population and a few cases were known when freshly-immigrated Russian kids were severely beaten by black kids in schools, when they were heard using Russian word "Негр" in a conversations between each other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr nachem (talk • contribs) 07:01, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Russian passports do not require any such thing. You're confusing them with Soviet passports. No objections in regards to the rest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.72.81.141 (talk) 17:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Do NOT Undo Edits Because of You Feel They Don't Add Anything

Please do NOT undo edits because you feel they don't add anything. State a tangible reason. Opening description was edited to reword 'black' to African-American or African. The term 'nigga' is a subjective pop culture term that does NOT belong in the opening paragraph. It is something not widely used. Just because you, your friends, or two black folks you know use the term doesn't mean it deserves wikipedia.org callout. Furthermore, it is important to note that the term has dual meaning instead of referring to 'nigga', why not refer to nizzle? All those items OR OTHER STUFF as you like to call it belong in the body of the article. The opening should just summarize and allude to further details to come as this new wording does. -Spencer,Leon 00:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Errr. You do realise that your versions still has a link to nigga in the opening paragraph. Its also a well sourced and stable article. You might like to provide some reliable sources for "The strife between pop culture and politically correct culture has led to attempts to avoid words with similar pronunciation - e.g. Niger, niggardly, and negro. Some use derivations such as nig, nigga, niggaz, and nizzle to reflect kinship while avoiding a direct pronunciation of nigger." because it reads very much like your opinion, rather than an accurate reflection of the literature. Rockpocket 00:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Very off hand comment I have to say an article on "Nigger" deserves a reference to "Nigga" early in the article as the two terms are very linked and both (sadly) very popular. Yes I understand there is a huge difference between the two spellings. 220.70.250.246 (talk) 14:01, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Someone needs to rewrite the usage in Australia section

Parts of the paragraph (if not all) are complete nonsense and needs to be rewritten.

This needs to change : "Australians, black or white, do not on the whole have the same sensitivity to the word as Americans, at least when it is used in a light-hearted, non-derogatory fashion among established groups of friends."

As well as this: "The relaxed attitude is mainly because there was no direct African slave trading."

The whole tone of the paragraph seems to suggest that in Australia we're more relaxed about the use of the word. That's completely false.

Nah, I'm old enough and Australian enough to know that the word historically and in my lifetime (getting close to the same thing) nigger has never had the same usage or effect as it has in the US. Boong and to a much lesser extent Coon (rather lately...almost never used in the 1950s) are the racist words for darker skinned peoples here; Aborigine and Koori being the non offensive words used now (well, apart from mate or cobber that is :-). --Phil Wardle (talk) 04:58, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

I would change it myself,but I can't because of the article is locked. 203.206.9.192 (talk) 10:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a source for the claim that it is "completely false"? JayKeaton (talk) 17:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Why are you asking me for a source? It's the writing in the article that needs one. For example: "The relaxed attitude is mainly because there was no direct African slave trading." and this: "Australians, black or white, do not on the whole have the same sensitivity to the word as Americans" 203.206.9.192 (talk) 02:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey he's just saying you might want a reference, find a website or something that backs you up. You might think it's clear and obvious, but it needs some support. You can't just say it's BS if you think it is. I've personally no idea, but you have to argue and post supporting comments in order for your opinion to stand - pretty much wiki 101. The article is [was] written that way, and yes it may be biased, in that case you show why it is, you dont just ask for it's removal, give us some links, something to act on. :)

I also found this section rather at odds with my experiences of growing up and living in numerous parts of Australia. For example, "when referring to indigenous Australians, the casual terms Abo and the more derogatory boong or coon are used in its place" -- "abo" is not a "casual term" by any stretch of the imagination, indeed the wikipedia entry for abo correctly says it is a racial slur. "Nigger is sometimes used amongst working class Australians, when used in a casual sense between friends or work colleagues of both white and mixed race" come on now, this is ridiculous. Such a practice would be a quick way to cause offence with friends or get you the sack if you were stupid enough to do it with work colleagues. I note that no citations are provided for any of this; perhaps some are needed. This section sounds more like the personal opinions of whomever wrote it. 81.157.83.220 (talk) 20:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Note someone has also put a comment at the bottom of this Talk page. So there are at least three people who've commented on here and who think the Australian section should be re-written. 81.157.83.220 (talk) 02:42, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any sources for that section, so if someone does rewrite it, he should find a source first. It looks like what's there is original research right now. I would not object to deleting the entire section until someone can find a reliable source, or at least tagging the section as original research. Kman543210 (talk) 02:48, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

common useage not as a negative word

This article hints at common useage not as a negative word; but it should cover that more and say it clearly. I live in Newark, NJ and I hear every day blacks call each other that with affection. (calling each other "my dog" also) "That nigger [is] my dog!" is a high compliment around here. WAS 4.250 (talk) 17:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The double standard and arbitrary punishment of alleged racism should be made more prominent in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree, there is almost no mention of double standard with regard to use of the word, yet this has been an issue for a number of years, especially in the hip-hop music scene121.73.165.17 (talk) 01:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

An unbiased neutral view is quite necessary. I suppose whites may call each other "their honky" but they don't tell blacks not to say it that I know of (although no one should use such remarks, I'm sure almost everyone has thought it, as it's impossible to escape that type of thing these days with it being said in songs and movies so much). Rightly so, the double-standard point should be mentioned, as it's of true importance. Whether it is slang for affection or a negative slur (between other races or against other races), it can't be said that it only means one thing nowadays. Matter of fact, it is used within similar races without bigotry. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 21:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Watch Blazing Saddles for examples of both "good" and "bad" usages. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 23:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

You following me? Does something in World Series need to be changed again? (I'm kidding, relax.) I've seen the movie. I'm sure whoever is monopolizing this article won't add what they don't like though. Same with the Honky page, it's played out. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 17:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

In south Texas I've heard hispanics call each other this term in a friendly manner. 

I do agree this article does not address the double standard. --RLS0812 (talk) 04:11, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Pulp Fiction Usage

How in the world does the small mention of the word "Nigger" by Zed get written about but the entire "Dead Nigger Storage" usage from the Bonnie Situation scene doesn't? It seems that if one of them is going to get addressed it would be the latter, not the former. Raoulduke25 (talk) 15:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

You can add this, see what format at WP:Profanity. 98.227.192.222 (talk) 10:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Because it's profanity. Wikipedia is no a place for "Dead Nigger Storage." 96.241.162.137 (talk) 23:11, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Please Add, if it can be certified

In the United States section, America's top general in the First World War, John Pershing, was once given the nickname "Nigger Jack" because he had led entirely black units before that war and approved of them. His nickname was later changed to "Blackjack Pershing". 74.10.198.105 (talk) 23:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

It's mentioned at the end of the Names of places and things section. --Onorem♠Dil 00:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Black African?

It was highlighted some time ago that the word Nigger was mostly used to refer to negroids. Indeed, as the article goes on to say it derives for the word negro.

This article would best begin by saying "Nigger is a derogatory term used to refer to dark-skinned people, mostly those with negroid features"

You may think the use of the word "negroid" is problematic and unscientific. However it's far less problematic than using Africa or color to designate who is a nigger (since Egyptians are darker skinned than most of the world, African and yet still not usually considered niggers).

Would a person with negroid features who is an albino be considered an albino nigger? Yes.

Says whom?Mk5384 (talk) 01:14, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not the skin color per se, nor the continent of origin that designates who is a nigger. It's the features that would lead a modern forensic anthropologist or earlier scientist to classify a person as a Negro.

The word nigger is an offensive synonym for negro, the word negro describes certain identifiable characteristics in humans. You can't successfully define "nigger" without making direct reference to what is meant by a negro.

Negro need not be a valid scientific concept in order to be used in the definition of nigger, it is however an essential concept.

Speaking of scientific, there are 3 basic skull types anthropologists use to categorise people, they being Caucasian, Asiatic and Negroid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC) :Not quite;Caucasoid, Negroid, and MongoloidMk5384 (talk) 01:09, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Nigger is a derogatory (but not always so) word, defining people of African descent in English Speaking Nations. Remember, they don't usually call them niggers in China or whatever. I don't know, but it seems political correctness is rearing it's ugly face in yet another Wikipedia Article. Skewing the truth and disregarding fact for the sake of not trying to offend people. Lets face it, Nigger is an offensive word to some, some people are arbitrarily offended at stupid things. Like women being offended at the word "cunt" for no logical reasons.

If people would stop being ashamed of History and inconsequential things like words, Wikipedia would be more factual.Jon3800 (talk) 23:41, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Derogatory?

Note: The word "nigger" was once commonly found in dictionaries as a non racist reference of the word ignorant to describe an ignorant person.

"Nigger is a derogatory term". This is a false opening statement. It is better written as "Nigger is a word that is deemed offensive in some cultures and a sign of affection in others."

In Britain the word "Nigger" is used often by blacks, but is seen as an excuse for people (black or white) to assault a white person should they use the word, or be rumoured to have used the word.

I myself have witnessed a group of 7 black male youths on a Sunday afternoon at White City tube station approaching young solo travelling white girls, one at a time, and shouting "You called me Nigger, you're a racist, bitch!". Needless to say I was rather shocked and dialled the emergency police number. But, clearly, the word "Nigger" is demonstrated to be a word that is culturally acceptable in the black community to attack whites with.

I don't see how anecdotes and personal opinions support re-writing the lead. Indeed, even if some black persons were using false accusations to attack whites, this fact would only support the claim: "Nigger" is a derogatory term. Phiwum (talk) 12:42, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Characterising a word before it is explained is very unscientific. It might not be a false opening statement, but the student is instantly railroaded into a predetermined insistence which only exists due to immense political pressure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:27, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I think "nigger" is offensive by anyone in general but the creation of "nigga" by blacks to thwart Caucasians motives seems to be more of the affection version. Yet, it seems that whites don't really have a need to say it to blacks anyways since so many blacks say it among themselves already. It's almost self-deprecating. Nonetheless, such as Dave Chappelle and others, the use of white slurs such as "honky" are still used negatively towards whites. I don't know many, but there are some, whites who will call each other "white trash" or "cracker" among themselves as a term of affection or even negatively. However, it's still not acceptable by blacks even though it seems to be as common that they use it. I think this topic best fits under a section of "double standard" perhaps, as there are many different views on the topic (in all fairness). If you take "nigger" or "white trash" by it's original meaning of an ignorant, lazy, indigent, and/or uneducated person, then any negative word even "stupid" or "retarded" shouldn't ever be used technically. But at some point, in the context of using it in definition is appropriate, but as an attack is not. In time, people themselves have created such hype about a word that wasn't really considered as big of a deal as it is now, and used in common everyday speech. Over time, people have just become more sensitive to words, image and race. Just my thoughts on the matter, thanks! 2legit2quit2 (talk) 16:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC) 2legit2quit2 (talk) 16:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

"Usage by non-blacks in popular culture" section

User:Yilloslime removed this section per "WP:BOLDly removing section which adds nothing to understanding of the word. are we going to list every movie in which "nigger" is used by a white person? what's remarkable about these movies".

Usage by non-blacks in popular culture

The word was used in the 1992 film Reservoir Dogs by Mr. White (Harvey Keitel) while in the car. It was also later used in the 1994 film Pulp Fiction by Zed (Peter Greene), a racist serial killer who rapes Marsellus Wallace (Ving Rhames), when he is playing the controversial version of the counting rhyme "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" to choose which person to rape.

The word has been used twice by a white person at the start of the 2003 film Bad Boys 2, where there's a Ku Klux Klan rally, when he has a gun to Marcus' (Martin Lawrence) head. In the subtitles of the film in DVD, when the white man says the word, it is read as "Nigger", while when blacks use it in the film, it is read as "Nigga".

The word has been recently used in an episode of The Sopranos, by Anthony Soprano, Jr. (Robert Iler), against a black person who was on a cycle, who then gets beaten up.

On the episode of South Park "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson", Randy Marsh appears on Wheel of Fortune and is presented with a bonus round puzzle whose category is "People Who Annoy You" and solved letters are "N_GGERS." With five seconds to go he reluctantly guesses: "Niggers!" on live national television, shocking his family, friends and millions of viewers worldwide. The correct answer is actually naggers, and Randy loses.

I'm not totally convinced that it should go, but am too on-the-fence to stick it back in the article. It is (somewhat) interesting information, but is also incomplete and poorly written, as well as pretty unencyclopedic. Any thoughts? M.Nelson (talk) 05:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

It's valuable to include contemporary references in order to exemplify the word's evolution, and impact on society. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:30, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree. I don't have the wikipedia experience to touch this article, -- but absolutely agreed. Same with far above where in pulp fiction "Dead Nigger Storage" is mentioned in Pulp Fiction .. sure, we don't have to put "Dead Nigger Storage" on the page, it seems offensive .. but it's worth mentionining that it was said in Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs (Quintin Tarintino), South Park, Bad Boys 2, etc

Rewriting

"Nigger is a derogatory term used to refer to dark-skinned people . . ." is false and misleading, implying that any usage of the word is derogatory and racist, which is of course not true. There was a lot more of that throughout the article. I've edited the article to make it more neutral. Thom (talk) 15:00, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

The article never explains WHY nigger is offensive to people, which should be its main point.

I agree, I think the fact that the article emphasizes too much on the negative of the word towards blacks, is more racist than admitting that for years, according to Webster's Dictionary, it was a word to describe an ignorant and/or uneducated person which the black slaves were mostly at that time. People have called other races the "N word" in the context that it's someone who is foolish or as a term-of-endearment. At any rate, it's a sensitive subject nonetheless. Like with the guy mentioned in this article who got fired for using variations of the word or different meaning words that sounded like it but did not mean anything about blacks, perhaps reconsidering or adding more history on the word is warranted. Just my thoughts/advice. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 06:59, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

President Lyndon B. Johnson

He is mentioned as a proponent of Civil Rights. This does Johnson a terrible disservice, as he sacrificed his political career and possibly shortened his life due to his committment to Civil Rights legislation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

A "proponent" is someone who is in favor of something. It is the opposite of "opponent." Macarion (talk) 09:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean 'proponent' or 'opponent'? Centrepull (talk) 07:37, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Australia section needs work

The following {{editsemiprotected}} request is rejected for failing to provide a sufficiently specific description of the desired change. It is left in place as a general edit request for an interested editor. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 23:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Could someone please edit the Australia section of this page, in particular the following sections :

"it is now rarely used by urban whites in any context; when referring to indigenous Australians, the casual terms Abo and the more derogatory boong or coon are used in its place." This implies that it was once in use and that all references to Aboriginal people are of a racially degrogatory nature.

"Nigger is sometimes used amongst working class Australians, when used in a casual sense between friends or work colleagues of both white and mixed race. It is generally used in imitation of American slang e.g. "Wassup, my nigger." It should be emphasised that the word nigger has far less shock value in Australia than the US and is often used in a typical Australian ironic context, without meaning to, or indeed causing offence. Black, Aboriginal, or Polynesian people may use the term to greet each other. It would not be acceptable to use the term to a stranger or casual acquaintance." The text in the above section are the individual thoughts of the author, no supporting references are given.

However, nigger has seen common use in rural or semi-frontier districts. In this context, the usage was British colonial, that is, applying generically to dark-skinned people of any origin (cf. Rudyard Kipling). This has led to controversy, since Australian Aborigines have started to take the term strongly to heart, in both the pejorative and revisionist senses (see below under Names of places and things). Again, no supporting references to back up the authors belief that the term was in wide and frequent use or that any indigenious Australians use the term today.

Warning?

Resolved

I know Wikipedia is uncensored and everything. But, should this have a warning? Like "this article may cause offense to some people" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Munchman (talk • contribs) 11:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I would say no because there are a lot of articles on wikipedia that may be offensive to some. The talk page above does state that this is a controversial topic and may be offensive to some. There are very explicit (nude) pictures in some articles on wikipedia that do not have any warnings. I don't believe there is any precedent for putting one on an article. I also should hope that the article is written well enough and in an intellectual manner as to not directly offend. Kman543210 (talk) 11:58, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Besides, the number of people who can read English well enough to read the article, but who don't know that the word is offensive, is almost certainly too small to worry about — especially as the article makes it clear that the word is indeed offensive. And if it's the article, rather than the word itself, that's causing offence, then the offended parties should get a better sense of what an encyclopedia is for. garik (talk) 12:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Furthermore, you have to type it in/click on it to get here anyway, so you almost always know where you are heading. A dictionary isn't censored. SGGH ^speak! 13:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I typed "n word" and it redirected me here, so I got totally sneak-attacked. I know a dictionary isn't censored, but a dictionary has significantly more editorial filters than Wikipedia. 168.98.67.11 (talk) 21:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored. siℓℓy rabbit (talk) 23:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

I do not think this article should have any warning. If the article about Peter North (porn star), describing his "exceptionally large penis" and his ability to achieve and maintain an erection, and to ejaculate, does not require a warning, then this article does not.

John Paul Parks (talk) 17:53, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

this article certainly does not require a warning. 'nigger' is just a word when not directing it to someone hence it should not be offensive to anyone. anyone could go on a neutral website (such as wikipedia) and dig up something offensive but shall we cater to their unrealistic needs? let alone the fact that people are searching this term just to get offended is ridiculous. it could have easily been avoided by not landing on this page, as well as skipping through if deemed offensive. Inspy (talk) 01:24, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Common Usage Prior to the Civil Rights Era?

The statement in the article that the term "nigger" was commonly used in the United States prior to the Civil Rights era is wrong. The term was not used by sophisticated people in polite conversation. The most frequent terms used were negro and colored, with the older "darkey" being common during and prior to the Civil War.

John Paul Parks (talk) 17:53, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand. Is usage by the polite and sophisticated the determinant of 'commonly used'? According to dictionary.com the term was in use at least since the 1800s. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nigger. 121.241.177.98 (talk) 23:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

proposed changes to section on ES Nigger Brown

I proposed the following changes and suggest they also get included in the section on australia

There has been a stir in Australia in recent years over the naming of a stand in the 1960s at a stadium in Toowoomba as the "E.S. Nigger Brown Stand". Toowoomba's first international rugby player Edward Stanley Brown was of caucasian (Anlgo-Saxon) descent yet was known ironically by the nickname of "Nigger Brown" either because he had used a shoe polish brand named "Nigger Brown" or was of fair complexion or both. As in the United States some decades ago, the word had been used casually in Australia. Brown was happy with the nickname, and it is written on his tombstone. A growing consciousness in Australia, however, has led to the term being considered offensive.

Australian activist Stephen Hagan took the responsible local council to court over the use of the word, but lost at the district and state level, and the High Court ruled that the matter was beyond federal jurisdiction (The federal government cited the High Court ruling on a lack of federal jurisdiction as its legal justification for continued inaction). Mr Hagan campaigned further - going to the United Nations while facing bankruptcy and personal attacks over his campaign - and following discussion between the Queensland Sports' Minister Judy Spence and the Toowoomba Sports Ground Trust a decision was made in September 2008 to not use the nickname in a plaque to be erected to continue to commemorate E.S. Brown when the stand is demolished. (Mr Hagan also has tried changing other terms or names such as the Coon brand of cheese.)

IMO there is too much detail [Undue Weight] on this case for this article. The section should be summarised and a new article started about Edward Stanley Brown. Hippo43 (talk) 23:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Give me a week or so and I see what I can cook up. The problem might be that a similar argument ({{Off-topic}}) might be levelled against a short biography of E. S. Brown which then elaborates on the stadium issue. On the other hand, an article about the stadium issue alone could be considered as non-encyclopedic and in breach of WP:NOT#NEWS — rock • hard place. Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:29, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I have now thought about this and I think there is no other place for this item. Neither E. S. Brown nor S. Hagan seem to warrant biographical articles, and the question of the stadium's name as an article seems not noteworthy enough. Furthermore, there have recently been a number of edits which pared down the prose of this section quite a bit, so I think it's no longer overwhelming the article. Note that WP:UNDUE deals with a different aspect of unbalanced writing. Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:53, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, its now a good example and not excessive in size ϢereSpielChequers 14:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

E.S. Brown doesn't warrant an article? If you say so, but just from the description above, I thought he'd satisfy the notability requirements. (I know nothing about him aside from the description above, so perhaps I'm just butt-wrong.) Phiwum (talk) 14:57, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

UK usage

The UK section needs a bit more work. For example, "these and other terms had become recognised as offensive racial slurs had been outlawed by stricter government legislation" doesn't make sense - and there is no "stricter government legislation" as described.

There's also too vague a timeline. The term was surely not derogatory in the 1930s when Agatha Christie published her story "Ten Little Niggers". My own sense is that it was not until the the 1950s and 1960s that the idea that it was was imported from the US – no doubt as mass immigration from the West Indies led to perceived competition for jobs between the native population and the new arrivals (similarly in the first section the idea that it became derogatory around 1800 is a remark that needs to be confined to the USA). Deipnosophista (talk) 11:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I would agree. I remember being baffled as a young child in the early 1950s when told that the n-word was racist. To me then racist words were things like "wog" ( as in "the wogs start at Calais" ). And I can't believe that John Buchan was being derogatory in a Richard Hannay novel where the hero goes into a club with "a rather good nigger band". However I certainly would not use the word now. Cerddaf (talk) 13:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• For a good idea what was regarded in the UK as racist in the 1960s and 1970s you can't beat watching a few episodes of Till Death Us Do Part as Johnny Speight put his finger firmly on that sort of abuse when he wrote Alf Garnett's lines. You can also try Love Thy Neighbour, although that is not as bad, racism-wise, as some people who've never seen it seem to think. Generally the derogative and abusive words for black people back then were things like 'wog', 'coon', 'sambo', 'jungle-bunny', etc. The term 'nigger' was (in my, albeit limited, experience anyway) almost unheard of in relation to black people, and didn't make much of an appearance until as late as the 1980s, IIRC, and that seems to have been imported from US (ironically) black Afro-American TV shows. Having said the above, it's always possible that 'nigger' was regarded as too offensive to be broadcast on UK television earlier, however, I don't think that's the case. For one thing, the Dambusters film refutes this. 14:15, 11 October 2009 User:213.40.252.1

My Change

I edited "derogatory" to pejorative which is what the similar article Cracker_(pejorative) uses. They are synonyms in a way but I find pejorative to be a more descriptive and encyclopedia worthy word. Inseeisyou (talk) 07:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

i certainly agree with the change. Inspy (talk) 01:26, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Irish Nigger

Could someone make a section on this. I don't know enough about it, but that ought certainly be mentioned. I mean in america it was used to the irish just as much as it was for blacks

Interesting, but we would need sources for that. I remember Jimmy Rabbitte saying something like it in The Commitments - but to the bemusement of the rest of the band. ϢereSpielChequers 14:14, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I think he said "the Irish are the blacks of Europe". Fainites ^barleyscribs 09:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it was a reference to Phil Lynott, who was both Irish and a Nignog —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.99.97 (talk) 11:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Hungarian Néger

The article states that the Hungarian word néger underwent a meaning change since the 1990's. It didn't. This word (néger) has nothing to do (and never had) with the derogatory term "nigger" which was (and sometimes is) used separatedly. These words may look similar but are not synonyms.

In contemporary Hungarian, "néger" simply refers to a black person, without any derogatory or racist meaning. On the contrary, the word "néger" is mostly unpreferred by local racists who use several other terms instead for black people. Note that Hungary had never been involved any kind of slavery and even had no colony, settlement or alike. This country neither had black minority nor it has significant black immigrants nowadays. A black (or African American) person appearing/living in local communities is still a rare thing. Thus no derogatory connotations have got assigned to the term "néger", therefore the unverified reference in the article shall be removed because it is deeply offensive to Hungarians.

hello, I second this - as a Hungarian, I can tell you that 'néger' has no racist connotations in Hungarian. Racists in Hungary use 'nigger' or other more recent derogatory terms to denote black people. They -never- use 'néger'. Please correct the article!

(replying to both unsigned comments above) Is this better? Remember by registering an account, you can edit this article directly. (You will have to request the WP:CONFIRMED userright or wait until you are autoconfirmed. –xeno^talk 22:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm also Hungarian, and the issue is actually quite complex: "néger" definitely doesn't have the virulence of "nigger", but it's not exactly neutral either. It appears to be slowly losing acceptability and becoming a pejorative word, much like what happened to "negro" in English. --Ashenai (talk) 22:44, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello again, I am the one who wrote the second unsigned comment (i forgot to log-in and thought that 'nigger' would be a protected article anyway). Thank you very mich for changing the article! Very much appreciated! Ashenai, I beg to differ on the question of 'néger' losing it's acceptability - it is still perfectly common to hear the word on Hungarian television in perfectly casual settings. (Last time I heard it in a promo of the tv-series "House", and i guarantee you that it was not a translation of 'nigger' :) Moreover, as I said earlier and as I am sure you are aware, the Hungarian 'racist community' is rather imaginative when coming up with racial slurs and they have their own expressions, which they use in addition to the loaned English 'nigger.' They -never- use 'néger' as a pejorative term on its own - of course the addition of an offensive adjective to it may turn it into a racial slur at any point. But that applies to all words denoting any distinguishable group of people. I feel I have to stand up for 'néger', as I think it is a perfectly ok word. - Gergely Kiss (talk) 13:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Any sources that happen speak to this? Note you are autoconfirmed now, you can edit the article directly if you find one. –xeno^talk 13:48, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Nas - Rapper

The most recent controversy regarding the word "nigger" occurred when rapper Nas, expressed his intent to name his new album “Nigger”. He was attacked by many prominent African Americans, especially Reverend Jesse Jackson who said “The title using the ‘N’ word is morally offensive and socially distasteful. Nas has the right to degrade and denigrate in the name of free speech, but there is no honor in it.” Eventually, Nas changed the title but not before saying “[By using “nigger”] we’re taking power from the word,” and putting a picture of himself with an "N" whipped into his back on the cover. The irony is that Nas still uses “nigger” repeatedly in fourteen of the fifteen tracks on his album, however there was no uproar about the songs, only the title.

70.108.47.165 (talk) 00:52, 11 November 2008 (UTC)Molly Wallace

Dvorak

There doesn't appear to be an easy place in the article to mention that Dvorak's 'American' Quartet was originally the Nigger Quartet (H. H. Schonzeler, Dvorak. Marion Boyars Publishers, New York 1984.)Fleapit (talk) 04:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

OK no need to add it then. ϢereSpielChequers 09:06, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

input

The word "nigger" was also once commonly found in dictionaries as a non racist reference of the word ignorant to describe an ignorant person.

originally the word nigger was used to describe an uneducated or ignorant person as someone today may call another person stupid or retarded. it happened to be that the slaves were black. in time, the word was associated to only blacks, but many will say that there are other "niggers" in other races. (it should be noted that while the "n word" is considered offensive towards blacks, such words for whites like 'honky' or 'cracker', are as equally offensive and should not be used either. in all fairness, this applies to both races.)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.129.170.102 (talk)

Good point: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nigger (disadvantaged person) 2legit2quit2 (talk) 19:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Cracker and honky don't offend white people. White people don't get all bent out of shape when called such things because its rubbish and they know it. Cracker and honky dont have as much of an impact that reflects on history as nigger does

Well, amen. That is true, that's a good point. 69.129.170.102 (talk) 10:50, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

SNL & pop culture

In a popular sketch on SNL, Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor exchange both "nigger" (Chase) and "honky" (Pryor) towards one another during a word-association interview. What I didn't see in this article is the (historical) mention of Redd Foxx, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor (with exception to one sentence), N.W.A. (Niggaz with Attitudes), etc. who re-popularized the usage (and used it often in public settings). Nowadays, it's common by comedians such as Eddie Griffin or rappers such as DMX (rapper). But at that time, it was still uncommon practice in "pop culture" (especially since some shows such as Sanford & Son had to be edited because Redd Foxx used the word so much during recording/taping.) These are just my additional thoughts/information on the subject that should be or could be added to the article. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 06:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

You forgot or left out that "honky" led to "N-word" which led to "dead honky", Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 23:14, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

No I didn't, the entire transcript isn't necessary. I was merely making the point about the racial slurs being used in general. If someone feels the need to add more (instead of deleting for a change) they can feel free to. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 17:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

David Allen Coe

I scanned through the article and talk page and saw no reference of this, so if there is no dispute, I can add it: While Coe used Caucasian-related racial slurs such as 'redneck' and 'white trash' in his music, he also sings at least three songs with 'nigger' in the lyrics. "Cowboys & Niggers", "If That Ain't Country, I'll Kiss Your Ass" and "Nigger Fucker": [3]

05:01, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 3/1/09 "Cowboys & Niggers" is a song by Johnny Rebel, whose work is often mistaken for that of David Allan Coe.

They both sang it. 69.129.170.102 (talk) 06:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

racial discussions warranted

It's interesting how even when positive content is added (ie. reference to the word Honky being used in pop culture) is "dumbed down" (rightly so since lack of attention makes it go away if in a negative manner) and other words such as Nigger is highly commented. Compare the articles of info that is kept and deleted. This is for many individuals in admin to pay attention to. It seems it is a "double standard" or "personal preference" that some will highly allow minor points to be made in some articles and not others. We can discuss further until a resolution is made, but to just cherry pick what we don't like or think is valid and keep what we think is appropriate is really not what Wiki approves us. Let's be honest with ourselves and mature about this type of concern. I hope catching people on it doesn't upset you, but it's apparent that truth is being diverted as a way to condone racism. Just my thoughts and suggestions, thanks! Have a good day... 2legit2quit2 (talk) 20:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honky

Agree. And it's ok to say Honky or Cracker in the media towards whites, but be hushed about the "N" word. Wrong is wrong. What about the "H" and "C" and "W" words? Perhaps a section (statement) can be made about this within the article regarding double-standard racial slurs. As that commercial goes about using the word "gay", 'knock it off', it all should stop. More references to support this idealogy later. Maybe a seperate article can be created. I know the matter won't change anything here, but a little bit of awareness can help in the long run. On the same subject, it seems not just with these words but others, the meanings have become "perverted" and "twisted" into offensive meanings, that didn't used to exist. It's a shame. FYI only, thanks. 69.129.170.102 (talk) 10:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Guys, I guess I have a more "pessimistic" view of this, but White Knighting about how there's a double standard in a subheading on a Wikipedia article probably isn't going to shake the world at its foundation. BlacknumberEx (talk) 02:28, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Three-Five-Zero-Zero

Please add the following to "use in popular culture":

HAiR, The American Tribal Love-Rock Musical, contained a song entitled "Three-Five-Zero-Zero," which used the chorus, "Prisoners in Niggertown/It's a dirty little war/three-five-zero-zero". The song and the musical were critical of the Vietnam War.

Etymology and history

This section makes a lot of claims but only have two (2) references. Not good. Fix it please. Birfday (talk) 00:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but why not do this yourself? Parrot of Doom (talk) 11:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Old 1980s Film

Apologies for posting this here, wasnt sure where else to put it. In the 1980s I have a vauge memory of seeing a movie where the plot focused around a drug dealer on trial for shooting a police officer. The drug dealer had a tape recroder playing rap music and instead of hitting stop when the cop walked up he hit record. The tape recorder then recorded the cop saying "Goodbye Ni**er!!" and opening fire. The entire movie was about some lawyer trying to get this tape and prove the drug dealer had acted in self defense. I think in one scene he finds it and it gets burned by the bad guys. Does anyone recall the name of this film? Its been 22 years at least but I'd love to see it again. -OberRanks (talk) 23:07, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

white nigger

This is a term I have heard used in the past, by Irish people in England, in describing themselves. The reference under United Kingdom to Elvis Costello's lyrics almost certainly refers to the British Army in Northern Ireland. See for example the Wikipedia entry for 'Murder Mile'. Oliver's Army established a grim reputation in Ireland some time ago. Reference in the song to 'a checkpoint Charlie' is probably a derogatory reference to a soldier, rather than to Checkpoint Charlie, which wasn't, to my knowledge, manned by British forces. Zipzoodle (talk) 22:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Senator Byrd used this phrase in an interview with public television last year. -24.98.65.137 (talk) 03:03, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Senator Byrd used it in 2001.Mk5384 (talk) 01:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

What is the nonsense about "East Germany" in the context of "Oliver's Army" and "white niggers"? The song is about the North of Ireland. Elvis Costello says so himself.

Sand Niggers / Wiggers etc

I think this is worth mentioning. No more than a paragraph. Today in the racist town i live in, I hear "sand nigger" more than anything describing muslim/arabics --67.236.81.130 (talk) 18:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Missed References

There is no mention of the word's usage in the novel Heart of Darkness or the Kentucky state anthem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.109.113 (talk) 06:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

That would be.. trivial. Also, the word used in Kentucky's state song was "darkies", but that's been changed to "people".  Aaron  ►  04:19, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

"Nigger-brown"

apparently, along with nigger black, this was a very common colour name in britain up until about the 60's as well, it talks about it in this snopes article, though i dont know if that will count as verifiable http://www.snopes.com/racial/business/sofa.asp It was (beyond the 60s possibly). The sofa section suggests nigger brown was a mistranslation however... --Kurtle (talk) 23:23, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Merge 'nigga'

I'm the one that added the tag. Seriously, -- yes the two should be in the Wiktionary separately, but for an encyclopedia I think "nigger" and "nigga" are so closely related and "the same subject" that in my humble opinion they should be merged. I want some census on it, and if most agree I will do the honors when I have time. And P.S. this talk page could use some cleanup too --nezZario (talk) 03:48, 16 November 2009 (UTC) I approve this 76.17.166.253 (talk) 21:52, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

No. They are two completely different things, and don't let ANYONE tell you otherwise.--Knuckles, Angel Island Protecter (talk) 01:23, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

• How so? African American English replaces R with A, so nigga and nigger are really the same thing, there is no real distinction when used, if you say nigger an offended African-American might be outraged that you "Said nigga.". It's like on the Simpsons, somehow they can tell Itchy & Scratchy is a cartoon but the news guy isn't: They're both cartoons in our eyes. Gigith (talk) 19:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

• I disagree with this proposed merge. As the other article points out, some english dialects pronounce the two differently and some pronounce them the same - so there is a real verbal difference as well as the written one. ϢereSpielChequers 19:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• I like wise disagree with the proposal to merge. The articles document the difference usages, with sources. Its not simply a matter of spelling. Rockpocket 22:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

• They are used as different words, but that is only because nigger is not how African-Americans tend to say nigger, they say it as nigga. The reason some people think nigga is less offensive than nigger is because nigga is how blacks say it, and a black person saying it is less offensive than a non-black person saying it. Putting on a fake Southerner/British/Whatever accent and calling them all stupid is no less offensive than saying it in your normal accent, and the words you use are still the same, only with a different, fake, accent applied to them. The reason people with those accents can insult people like them is not because of their accent, it is because of how they are a part of the group they're insulting. Gigith (talk) 05:55, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

• • Same word[4], identical and overlapping usage[5] by same speakers. All that is trying to be done here is to distinguish between the historic racist use of the word to demean and the contemporary, in some quarters, use of the word fraternally. The word itself is the same[6] - connotative differences should be reflected within the article itself and not through the artificial creation of false entries based upon phonetic spellings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.144.195.157 (talk) 16:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

It also needs to be added that nigger or nigga ( I think that its the same word) can be used as an insult among blacks as well as neutrally and in solidarity.

Please fix punctuation

Resolved

The following needs a minor edit under Usage in popular culture: "Michael Richards used the word nigger against a heckler during his stand-up comedy routine)[24] Dog the Bounty Hunter used the word in reference to his son's girlfriend.[25]"

It should read: "Michael Richards used the word nigger against a heckler during his stand-up comedy routine.[24] Dog the Bounty Hunter used the word in reference to his son's girlfriend.[25]"

Basically remove ) with . (Of course if necessary, further explanations of these two incidents can be added as well to explain the circumstances. But not required.) Thank you! 69.129.170.102 (talk) 13:17, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Done, thanks for pointing that out ϢereSpielChequers 13:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

As a result of "Dog", his show was cancelled but later renewed. If it's of importance to the current already vague statement. Both received national attention. Appreciate it! 63.131.4.149 (talk) 10:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

"Dog the Bounty Hunter used the word in reference to his son's girlfriend.[25]" This sentence is sort of generic. I realize "Dog" is popular, or otherwise this wouldn't be worth mentioning (allot of people use the word in songs, movies, shows, in private, etc.), but adding "which became public and caused Dog to lose his show temporarily", to the end of the sentence, would make more sense and give it more stability. Let me know your thoughts, or just kindly make the change...thanks! 69.129.170.102 (talk) 23:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Hello, in Spain this word es "negrata".

Shouldn't this be moved over the Wiktionary?

Resolved

I don't understand why there is an article for this word, but not for many others. --64.180.0.32 (talk) 01:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

There are articles for many other terms. --Ezeu (talk) 01:12, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Especially the fact this has a lot of encylopedic content & it's a controversial word. Definately needs to be here. --67.236.81.130 (talk) 18:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Moved from comments subpage - Pulp Fiction

In Quentin Tarantino's film, Pulp Fiction, there are uses of the word by both black and white characters. In one instance, Tarantino, playing the character Jimmie, asks a bloodied Samuel L. Jackson and John Travolta if they saw a sign on the outside of his house that said 'Dead Nigger Storage' because they had brought a dead black man to his house in their car. He sardonically reminds the hitmen that they did not see such a sign because storing dead niggers was not his business.

I believe it is also worthy of mention that "nigger" is also used in reference to white characters Butch and Vincent Vega (and Jimmy, indirectly) by Marcellus Wallace.

206.57.95.217 01:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

-Hey, Sweet!

-Whassup, bro?

-It's timee for Smoke. The Johnson brothers will take that fat ass fool!

-Yeah, my nigga, you are my running dog!

(part of conversations between Sweet and Carl Johnson, two very known niggaz, from the GTA San Andreas missions "End Of The Line" and "The Green Sabre")

MOS guidelines on using this word in other articles?

Are there any style policies or guidelines regarding the use of this word in Wikipedia articles in general? I attempted to euphemize a reference to this word in a quotation from Muhammad Ali, in the Conscientious objector article, but I was reverted. I felt (and still feel) that words generally considered to be offensive (such as this word) should not be used in Wikipedia articles without a good reason, but I looked in WP:MOS just now and couldn't find anything on this subject. Any thoughts? Richwales (talk) 19:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

You shouldn't censor/euphemise quotes. –xeno ^talk 19:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The relevant guidelines are WP:PROFANE and WP:NOT#CENSORED. The latter says that "In particular, when a cited quotation contains words that may be offensive, it should not be censored" (and I agree). I think the article needs to make it clearer why the quote is relevant though. — Matt Eason ^{(Talk • Contribs)} 19:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe everything than anyone considers offensive for any reason should be removed from wikipedia. Why not remove this entire article. What on earth would make you corrupt a quotation? Fixentries (talk) 16:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Euphemizing it, as you say, only serves to increase the hateful power it can convey. As stated above, WP is not censored but even if it were, the larger issue would be that you're talking about a quote. Changing the text would make it no longer a quote - "In particular, when a cited quotation contains words that may be offensive, it should not be censored." (WP:NOT) ~ Amory (talk) 17:17, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposal of Merging Nigga into Nigger.

I am proposing that Nigga be merged with Nigger under a new category in the article. Nigga is currently a Start-class article and merging its information might bring this article up a grade letter. However I am concerned that this merging might make the article too long. (It looks too long as it is) Feel free to discuss your opinions and thoughts. JasonHockeyGuy (talk) 16:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Well to begin with, you should probably at least notify editors of that article by commenting on its talk page. Secondly, this article we better be improved by removing many of the tedious pop-culture references and making it tighter, rather than adding more content from what is currently a short but appropriate sub-article. I don't think it would make this article any better, only longer. Rockpocket 17:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

No, I agree. I came to this article to read about usage in different conutries and actually did a text search on "nigga" only to find it was another article. DEFINATELY should be merged / redirected --67.236.81.130 (talk) 18:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes. The two are far too closely related to not share an article. 24.184.200.190 (talk) 05:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Usage in popular culture

SECOND PARAGRAPH READS: The word nigger has appeared in many films (such as in Blazing Saddles, which used the term to ridicule racism), television shows and songs. The word was also used in all stage productions of the musical Show Boat from 1927 until 1946. It is part of the original lyric to the famous song Ol' Man River, as well as of Cotton Blossom, the show's opening chorus. It was not used in any of the film versions of the show, but it was included in the 1988 EMI recording of the complete original score, featuring its original lyrics, orchestrations, and vocal arrangements. Musical theatre historian Miles Kreuger and conductor John McGlinn have both argued that the word was not intended as an insult, but rather as a blunt illustration of how whites at that time perceived blacks.

Aside of Blazing Saddles (this isn't the only example/movie it's used in), I recommend using additional references such as:

"The word nigger has appeared in many films such as Blazing Saddles (which used the term to ridicule racism), Mississippi Burning [7] and Fried Green Tomatoes (film)[8][9].

In the movie Die Hard With a Vengeance, after a bomb explodes in the early morning at the Bonwit Teller department store in New York City, a man calling himself "Simon" (Jeremy Irons) telephones the police claiming responsibility, and demands that they play a game of "Simon Says" to prevent any more explosions. Simon orders suspended NYPD Lt. John McClane (Bruce Willis) walk through Harlem wearing a sandwich board that says "I HATE NIGGERS"

Songs and Television shows are already included in this section of the article.

"Gimme a Break: Baby in the Family" is one episode where Nell Carter says the N-word after seeing Joey Joey Lawrence performs in blackface.

69.129.170.102 (talk) 21:57, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I didn't see the mention of Talk Radio host Dr. Laura Schlessinger using the word and the affect it had in media. She was illustrating an example of how blacks commonly use it, not saying it as an attack/slur to anyone. Did I overlook it perhaps? Thought it might be important to include with the other examples. I also don't see most of the above info added/changed/considered. Thanks... 63.131.4.149 (talk) 08:29, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

1st Amendment

Resolved

I'm removing

The reason for the lack of penalties in the New York resolution is that any attempt to impose a penalty for pure speech, not accompanied by any clear or present danger, would violate the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, to which the States have been subject since the decision in Gitlow v. New York. Merely because a group of persons finds a particular word or expression offensive does not provide the government with any authority to ban it. For example, a Vietnam-era era draft protestor was held, in the case of Cohen v. California, to have a constitutional right to wear a jacket into the Los Angeles County Courthouse that bore the words "fuck the draft."

which is not only incoherant abt the legal situation, nor only too broad for this article, but is partly and perhaps totally OR. The clear and present danger logic may or may not have motivated individual members of the body, or have been discussed in their public deliberations, or be stated in the resolution; the article should make it clear how one knows whether it was the case here. Since the author clearly does not understand the context in which the phrase is applicable, it would be reckless to assume they are right -- and especially so since facts about the intent of legislative bodies is far less likely to become established knowledge than it is to become the subject of partisan opinions that "the intent is obvious on its face to anyone who is objective [like me]."
Interested readers should consult the article on the phrase, but here's a spoiler: "clear and present danger" does not suffice for restricting speech; e.g. a clear and present danger of an ugly bout of competitive racial slander is not the kind of danger that the rule was, and remains, about.
--Jerzy•t 02:22, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Woman Is the Nigger of the World

How ironically this is discussed: under UK, attributed to John Lennon. I'm downgrading the ref to him there, reflecting the fact that its easily documented UK significance (her interview in a UK women's mag) is in 1969 via Yoko, not him, and that its easily documented US significance far outweighs that.
Under US, i'm adding his role in it, which so far is in its US context (outside of his pic apparently appearing -- perhaps on the cover? -- in the UK women's mag). As far as our article "Woman Is the Nigger of the World" knows, his role with it is that (when they both were living in the US), the record was released (and perhaps Apple involvement is evidence of otherwise unmentioned UK release) and included in the album pointedly titled Some Time in New York City, eliciting problems with US broadcasters, and defense/support by US political and cultural figures.
Did i say "ironically"? Yes, i said ironically. (And clearly i should stick to article pages when Craig Ferguson is on, since i can resist the influence there.) Woman says "Woman is the nigger of the world", in Britain, and 3 years later her husband says it in the US, and finally people notice. Notice anything about the status of women? Other side of the ocean may also be an enlightening consideration.
--Jerzy•t 04:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

strom thurmond

the reference to an article in the washington post is, i suspect, a misplaced reference to this article in the new york times http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/15/weekinreview/it-s-1949-meet-president-strom-thurmond.htmlJohnnyMercer (talk) 19:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Take this word off your webpage!!!!

I find this word extremely offensive and you guys should not downplay the significance of this word. This word should be pulled from your sight because every time i hear or read this word it makes my heart drop as if someone close to me has just been injured. 69.110.6.52 (talk) 05:54, 22 July 2009 (UTC)Johnny

Wikipedia is not censored. --Andrewlp1991 (talk) 05:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I find it highly amusing that people can be deeply offended by this word. It's a word, its sole meaning is "a black person," yes I know its history, but how long are people going to cling to the argument of slavery. It wouldn't be so bad except our society places a single ridiculous word onto such high regard where it can be used as freely as saying "hi" by blacks yet it is the worst offense when used by others. Such hypocrisy and stupidity is what leads to slavery and here you ignorants cherish it like gold.

Kev098 (talk) October 6, 2009 —Preceding undated comment added 06:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC).

The irony of such statement is that you choose to make the word controversial and/or racist. It's an open-source media, grow up. --Inspy (talk) 23:25, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

oh please what a fail attempt to sue Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.177.187.45 (talk) 19:28, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Not sure why the above comment had to be posted/mentioned, but please be nice to each other, folks. I do think there is too much emphasis on this word and not other racial words that are equally as hurtful/negative. Should all be included in a discriminatory series and kept simple, not argumentative. Agree to disagree and leave it at that. Everyone has an opinion, but those can't be included within the articles. Facts/research only. P.S. Editor soapboxing examples above. (clearing throat) Thanks... 63.131.4.149 (talk) 08:35, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Reference material or take out immediately

This is not an article that should have ANY unreferenced material, especially when applied to individuals - even deceased ones like the base ball players. Who knows who has made it up and put it in. I'll come back and clean out all unreferenced materials soon, so get hopping! Makes wikipedia look bad. CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:30, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Someone made a start anyway. Archiving all of 2008 Talk also is necessary and hearing no objections will do soon. CarolMooreDC (talk) 18:11, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Should a note be added to the top of the page?

Nigger is certainly still used as a racial slur, but it is also used as a word that means friend in common US culture —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.176.42 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Discussed above at #common useage not as a negative word, but yes, it could use a mention in article. –xeno^talk 19:48, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

learn what it really is.

A nigger is someone who is ignorant, ignorant means unknowing, so get your facts straight, a nigger can be either black or white. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.224.122.115 (talk • contribs) 19:43, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Source? –xeno^talk 19:46, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I have heard it used this way. With a source this should be added to article. Borock (talk) 07:19, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

The defintion of nigger

THE DEFINITION OF NIGGER IS NOT, LET ME STATE, NOT A RACIST SLANG WORD TO OFFEND BLACK PEOPLE! Nigger is not a slang word that offends a different color. It is merely a word that means stupid or ignorant of that subject. Nigger can be used toward any color including Caucasian because we have brought the word to what we call it now and days but nigger does not mean offending to black people it is merely used to any color, any person, and merely if you do not agree that means you are a nigger...... I say that to everyone who is IGNORANT on the subject :) :)--Therightinfoforyou:) (talk) 20:27, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I've heard it used this way was well, but do you have a reliable source that we can use to note this alternate usage? –xeno^talk 20:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Up until recently, most (and some still do) dictionaries defined nigger as an indigent, poor and/or unintelligent person... predominately blacks (of African descent) because they were at one time ignorant and uneducated people whom whites had during slavery. Sources still verify this to date, especially older dictionaries by Webster. I suppose it would be no different than calling poor Ozark Whites a "Hillbilly", Southern Asians as "Deshi" or Indians as "Redskins". A word only becomes/became offensive as people took them personal, misuse them and/or overused them to mean something negative. Eventually, any word could be taken as offensive. For example (just a few), the history of words such as prude, diva, or anal (retentive) were all words that at one time were not considered derogatory but have been abused to the point of offense sometimes. Or like how people substitute words like "sugar" for "shit" to avoid "cursing" when in reality it's the same thing (an expletive). Not to mention how people misconstrue/misinterpret words that sound like a slur but means something totally different (such as niggardly, which I believe this article addresses already). It's important that this article expresses the "double-standard" of other slang used towards other races, such as "honky", "sand rat", "chink", "red dots", etc. and how they are equally offensive. Only time will tell the impact those will also have on other nationalities. (It's too bad that logic and truth are suppressed by emotions and anger at times. I suppose that's how human nature goes.) But agreeing with the above point, if people truly knew the history of the word, they'd realize that any race/nationality (color and nationality are two different things) could be considered a nigger. Unfortunately, black slaves were mostly called this and then it became a word of hate after their revolution and Freedom. However, in history, Asians, Jews and Indians were equally persecuted and called - what we now consider - "racist" names. Nonetheless, African-Americans use the word as much as or more than any other race currently to identify themselves with each other, because it has become a "bad word" for other races to use it, unlike in the past. Still, in certain contexts, the word can be used by anyone to express a point or set a tone, such as in movies or scripted music and shows. In all fairness, to repeat them in that way, should not be considered "a crime" (punishable). As humans, in time, we have learned from our mistakes and progress/move forward. Perhaps I can "source" this again, as I have before, at another time. Thanks for the opportunity to share. 69.129.170.102 (talk) 12:59, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Many years ago, the last meaning of the definition was first (or exclusive), only stating that black slaves were called this. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nigger 69.129.170.102 (talk) 13:06, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Additional examples, all supporting that it's not just related to blacks. However, I still haven't found a definition of it from the previous century. Either way, it's negative in meaning, if even about a "poor uneducated" person.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Nigger and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nigger

69.129.170.102 (talk) 13:15, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

1960s and 1970s

The article says it was in common use until the 1960s and 1970s. Well. I was alive then and polite people did not use it. (Okay I was raised in a middle class Yankee family, but still.) Borock (talk) 07:21, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

German NEGER

In Germany Neger is still widely used and not necessarily considered "racist". German children love "Negerküsse" (Negrokiss), a type of large foam marshmellow covered with chocalate on a waffel, also called "Mohrenkopf" (Negrohead). In bakeries you can buy a "Amerikaner" which is cake with dark chocolate on one side and white chocolate on the other. Nice blacks are called "Neger" as where African drugdealers on German streets for example are called "Niggers" oder "Kaffer" (Bugs), this language influenced by American hip hop and rap videos. 78.52.174.226 (talk) 22:50, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

You seem to be the victim of one of those pranks we Germans like to play on foreigners (hahaha, so hilarious, btw): "Neger" has been politically incorrect in Germany at least since the 90s. Also, the word "Kaffer" is complete gibberish, you most likely refer to "Käfer" (which does mean bug), but if this actually does refer to drug dealing black people, it is extremely obscure and probably confined to a special slang. ANarc (talk) 00:21, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Nonsense, "Kaffer" is regular word of my mother tongue - which happens to be German. It's hardly used though nowadays. --84.60.126.81 (talk) 18:43, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

US Usage

"The pejorative, racist meaning has been recognized and criticized as such since the nineteenth century, yet remained in general global use until the 1960s and 1970s. In United States popular culture and slang, the word nigger remains current usage, yet remains a racist slur. Etymology and history"

What proof is there of this? Also note that the word "Nigga" is seen by a lot in the black community as not being the same as "Nigger", so at the very least the part "yet remains a racist slur" should be changed if it's talking about the more non-racist version. Though "Nigger" and "Nigga" are really the same word, just spellings of different accents. Gigith (talk) 04:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Why don't I see any mention to the fact for a period after the Potato Famine, the Irish immigrating to the US were frequently referred to as "Niggers"? This idea that the word is wholly racist and has only been applied to American Blacks is false. "Nigga" does not have the same meaning as "nigger", or rather it has a more focused usage in that while you may consider many people in your neighborhood to be "niggers" or poor, most often yourself included, your friends are often referenced as "niggas" more as a term of endearment. 22:42, 15 September 2010 User:192.12.88.11

Onomotopoetic

Nigga is NOT onomonopoetic. That section needs to be redefined. Mtkoan (talk) 07:08, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for changing the header, but "onomotopoetic" is still in the paragraph. Onomotopoetic means a word that sounds like its definition: Sizzle, hum, woosh. Nigga is, hmm, a coloquialism or abbreviation? Mtkoan (talk) 00:04, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

• The correct spelling is "onomatopoeic" Xtremerandomness (talk) 11:05, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

illustrations

I added a couple of pd pix, because there had long been a call for illustrations, and I thought these would lend a sense of historical usage. It would be good if we could find some modern ones, maybe images of racist grafitti? I remember that the "Tom and Huck" statue in Hannibal Missouri at the foot of Cardiff Hill used the word on an official plaque when I was a child (1930s-1960s) but was changed long ago. Wish I had a documentary photo.

This article illustrates better than any other I know the wikiprocess -- a thorny, difficult, necessay topic with lots of disagreement, controversy, discussion, consensus and evolution -- good job, people!DavidOaks (talk) 03:16, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone else feel that these illustrations might be doing more harm than good? Mardiste (talk) 22:21, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Nope. ×××BrightBlackHeaven^(talk)××× 22:29, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Typos

'remains current usage' should be 'remains in current usage'. I can't edit this page myself. HunsV (talk) 19:28, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Black children

In some circles, the term "niglet" is used to refer to black babies or children. For example, "Aww, look at the little niglet." Matt2h (talk) 05:55, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a point apart from trying to provoke people? garik (talk) 16:12, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored. If it is relevant it should be included. Also next time you might want to assume good faith, not everyone is a troll. ANarc (talk) 00:21, 7 March 2010 (UTC)(definitely not a troll)

Assuming good faith when the evidence indicates otherwise is foolish. It's well known that "niglet" is used as an offensive term for black children. Stating that it should be included in the article is one thing. Adding an offensive example like that for something that is self-explanatory is quite another.Mk5384 (talk) 08:21, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Some consider that word/name for pets (ie. pigs/dogs) that may or may not be black. Depends. Piglet/Niglet, wiener dogs, etc. All depends on where you are from and who it's being said among. Overall though, it is not an acceptable/popular/cultural term to use as far as I know. 63.131.4.149 (talk) 20:13, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Edits to consider, needed &/or required:

In the two paragraphs below (copied from the article), text about rappers (ie. NWA) needs to be combined with the Music section, not included in the Television section. (2Pac would be another popular example, as well as many others before his release of "Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z." in 1993.) Also, the use of the word nigger by Dog The Bounty Hunter and Michael Richards were not actually done/said on television, although it was reported via said source. Perhaps clarity is warranted or a different section for it.

Music: Responding to accusations of racism after referring to niggers in the lyrics of the Guns N' Roses song, One in A Million, Axl Rose stated "I was pissed off about some black people that were trying to rob me. I wanted to insult those particular black people. I didn't want to support racism." [30] The Country music singer David Allan Coe used the racist words redneck, white trash, and nigger in the songs “If That Ain’t Country, I’ll Kiss Your Ass” and “Nigger Fucker”.[31] In the 1960s, record producer J. D. "Jay" Miller published pro-racial segregation music with the “Reb Rebel” label featuring racist songs by Johnny Rebel and others, demeaning Black Americans and the Black Civil Rights movement.[32]

Bob Dylan's song "Hurricane" makes mention of a 'nigger' framed for a crime. 63.131.4.149 (talk) 07:29, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Television: In the British television series Fawlty Towers, in “The Germans” episode, the Major Gowen character used niggers to describe West Indian and Indian cricketers. In Saturday Night Live, comedians Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor say nigger and honky to each other in a word-association interview. Comedians such as Pryor, Redd Foxx, Eddie Murphy, and Lenny Bruce used nigger in their comedy. Contemporarily, rap groups such as N.W.A. (Niggaz with Attitudes), re-popularized the usage in their songs. Some episodes of Sanford & Son were censored and not broadcast, because Foxx used the word nigger. In a Mad TV sketch titled “Real Mother****ing Talk”, a [white male] character says “nigger, please” before other Black people, such as Xzibit. In episode 20 of the Family Matters second season, the graffito nigger was written on Laura Winslow’s school locker, and found a note addressed to her that read: “If you want to learn Black History, Go back to Africa”. Elsewhere, Dog the Bounty Hunter used nigger in referring to his son’s girlfriend. [33] The American comedian Michael Richards called a heckler nigger during his stand-up comedy routine.[34]

Additionally, there are other more popular movies which significantly used the word nigger besides "Blazing Saddles" that can be included in the Cinema section to expand it, such as "Shaft" (1971), "Mississippi Burning" (1988), "Reservoir Dogs"[10] (1992), "CB4" (1993), etc.

Cinema: The movie Blazing Saddles (1974) used nigger to ridicule US racism. In Kentucky Fried Movie (1977), the sequence titled “Danger Seekers” features a stuntman effecting the dangerous stunt of shouting NIGGERS!! at a group of black people, then fleeing when they chased him.

Not adding to article?

Thanks for your attention to this. 69.129.170.102 (talk) 11:33, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Contemporary is spelled wrong in the above paragraph:

... Contemporarily, rap groups such as N.W.A. (Niggaz with Attitudes), re-popularized the usage in their songs. ...

69.129.170.102 (talk) 13:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Disregard correction about Contemporarily needing to be Contemporary. Contemporarily is used correctly in this context. Still, the other info mentioned above needs to be moved, edited and clarified/expanded. Thanks... 69.129.170.102 (talk) 02:30, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

booboo

date 4 january 2010 why do west indians ie jamaicans trinidadians batians call east/west africans Booboo/Booboos. Anyone care to enlighten me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.9.144.165 (talk) 01:03, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how that is germane to this article. Mk5384 (talk) 06:46, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Joseph Conrad

• Anyone who thinks that Conrad's use of the word "nigger" in The Nigger of the Narcissus is not racist clearly has not read that book. At any rate, the claim, "Nineteenth-century English (language) literature features usages of nigger without racist connotation, e.g. the Joseph Conrad novella The Nigger of the 'Narcissus' (1897)," needs to be excised from this article, as it is dead wrong. 13:56, 14 January 2010 User:68.44.232.52

Major POV issues

This article reads largely as something written by white Americans to lambaste political-correctness and to whine about the fact that black people can say 'nigger' while white people can't. For instance, the suggestion that the word 'nigger' was freely used without racist connotations until the civil rights movement "made" it racist is downright preposterous. For such a sensitive and historically important subject, this article is lamentable.

Severely lacking are references to actual scholarly works on the word and its cultural and political history, rather than random personalities, celebrities, and popular sentiment. In its current state, this article more or less expresses a slightly uneducated white American view about race relations in the US, complete with all of the expected resentment towards political correctness and the perceived "hypocrisy" that blacks still use the word. Somebody interested in the subject would likely gain more listening to a middle-aged man ranting about the subject at his local pub than he would from this article in its current state.

For this reason, I plan to add soon a POV header. Please feel free to express your own concerns or disagreements with my perspective. --71.235.239.166 (talk) 20:36, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

For reference, the above was written by me. I forgot to sign in. --TimothyDexter (talk) 20:37, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you're describing a POV issue. I think you're describing a sources issue. I also think you're mischaracterizing what's already here; intra-group usage has a different social meaning from usage across group boundaries. That's well-known, well-documented for many groups, and recognizing it is not whining. Nor is the recognition that dominant group consensus found the term comparatively inoffensive until a period of increased sensitivity made it so. Dysphemic status is a social fact, rather than one of the natural world, and so it is quite unremarkable that the intensity with which a given dysphemism is perceived will vary with changing social standards. The recognition is an entirely neutral observation of social history. I have heard people express judgements on social developments much as you report, but I don't see it here on a quick scan. If ti's there, it's a fairly easy fix. DavidOaks (talk) 22:16, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Niggers vs Niggas

This debate should be revisited. 24.184.200.190 (talk) 00:36, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
If you feel that it should be revisited, do you have anything to say about it?Mk5384 (talk) 15:24, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

IE. Nigger/Nigga please. 63.131.4.149 (talk) 07:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editsemiprotected}} I plugged the chinese characters into the translator and it still says "nigger brown" 2 March 2010 Thfo (talk) 01:07, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Not done: Please state your request in a 'please change X to Y' level of detail. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 21:45, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

This sounds more like a problem with the translator than with the page.

Nigris

• OK, we'll do this again...seems someone deleted my discussion post which I believe is gross violation of Wikipedia codes of conduct... I wanted to point out that I didn't notice the term, Nigris. It is the female form of Nigger. I thought that it should be included for completeness. 07:19, 6 April 2010 User:99.33.92.16

"Negress" was the term, and many years ago, was considered to be the female equivalent of "negro". It was never spelled "nigris", nor did it have anything to do with the word "nigger".Mk5384 (talk) 15:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

References to foreign languages

The references to Hungarian, Swedish et cetera should be removed. The term "neger" has, in Scandinavia, been the formally correct way to adress a black person until just recently, where the term "Sort" (Black) is now more widely used, although anyone over 50 will still use "Neger" in a non-demeaning way.

Edit request from Ὁ οἶστρος, 2 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

I can't edit it myself due to my status (I've been registered for a few days now, so I've no idea why I'm not allowed to contriubte to [semi-]protected pages), so someone else please edit the following two items:

1. old: "banned [...] the use of the word nigger; there is no penalty for using it."
new: "banned [...] the use of the word nigger; however, there is no penalty for using it.""
or: "banned [...] the use of the word nigger, but there is no penalty for using it."

2. old: "The 1930s movie The Bowery with George Raft"
new: "The 1930s movie The Bowery with George Raft"

ὁ οἶστρος (talk) 13:30, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Done -- /MWOAP|Notify Me\ 15:31, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks with regards to point #1, BUT the link for the movie title is still in the wrong format and thus doesn't go to that movie's entry but to the one for the eponymous street; please use the format I provided in my initial request. (By the way, any idea why I still can't edit articles such as this myself? How long will I have to wait?) – ὁ οἶστρος (talk) 16:24, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Done Yay, I'm now allowed to edit. Just made the change. – ὁ οἶστρος (talk) 21:13, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 76.181.182.190, 16 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

The section on popular culture / cinema sites "Full Metal Jacket" as a movie reference. This section includes the line "As noted by Gunnery Sergeant Gerheim (R. Lee Ermey), "There is no racial bigotry here. We do not look down on niggers, kikes, wop or greasers, because here you are all equally worthless." "

The Gunnery Sergeant's name was HARTMAN in that movie, Not Gerheim.

Thank you.

76.181.182.190 (talk) 11:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Done Thanks, Celestra (talk) 15:01, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Godfather I or II? The novel?

Was the term used and edited from either of these flicks? The book? I have not seen the movies except on TV in a long time, nor read the book in a while. But it seems to me that it might have been used in part II by Frankie Pantangelo and in part I during the meeting of the mafiosi.--Jrm2007 (talk) 01:24, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It was used in both movies. However, this word has been used in so many movies, that I hardly think that its use in these movies bears mentioin in the article.Mk5384 (talk) 15:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, GFI and GFII are important films and the fact that it is primarily shown with the word editted out is perhaps worth mentioning.--Jrm2007 (talk) 20:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

"Black" vs. "African American"

I have removed the statement that "black is the contemporary usage in the U.S., and is generally not considered offensive". African American has certainly become the "proper" term. "Black people", is, at best, politically incorrect, and indeed, considered offensive by many.Mk5384 (talk) 15:23, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Thats not true. It is only considered offensive by a small number of people, and in fact it was changed in order to denote that all other races have a similar style wording, ie. Spanish American, European American, and so on. Also, your comment that Africa American has become the "proper" term does not conflict with the statement you removed, which says "black is the contemporary usuage and generally not considered offensive". It does not say that it is NEVER considered offensive, and it does not claim it is the proper term. "Black" is used far more often in common casual conversation, and although "African American" is also used casually it is not to the same extent. Generally it is used in certain circumstances. If you want to change the statement to "Black is commonly used throughout the U.S., however as it may be offensive to some, African American is considered proper" or something along those lines. I wont make the change right now so that I can get a little feedback - because maybe I am wrong. However from where I stand, it appears that the statement did not say anything conflicting with what you claim, and what I do know for sure is casually in private conversation the term "black" is used far more than African American. And I have not seen or heard of very many instances of the term "black" being considered offensive by many - and in fact color is the most common way I've heard that "White People" are referred by. Perhaps if there are black (or African American) readers here, they could offer the input on "black" and its offensiveness, because I am not so sure there would be a source on something like that, I dont know I am too lazy to research it, thats why I am not making any changes. 108.2.103.208 (talk) 06:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Possible additions

Anyone feel like incorporating specific examples of the term being as a general slur, like describing the locals while the US was occupying the Philippines or the Irish in America during the 1800's? Although the article is already a tad bloated. 76.99.20.72 (talk) 14:11, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

I've read somewhere that the use of the N word in the Mikado was changed by Gilbert after they had taken the operetta to the USA, and discovered that it was considered offensive there. But I can't find the reference. Anyone help? Cerddaf 30 Jun 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cerddaf (talk • contribs) 12:57, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

google search

If you search "i can read wikipedia" on google, this page comes up. Why is that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.39.120 (talk) 04:34, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Qazqwezxc, 1 July 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} if you type in google: i can read wikipedia, and press I'm feeling lucky, you come up with the result nigger from wikipedia

Qazqwezxc (talk) 21:42, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.

Unclear what part of this googlebomb trolling belongs in the article. --Onorem♠Dil 21:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 81.149.187.12, 2 July 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

George Melly the jazz singer and raconteur used the regularly used the term `Nigger Minstrels` in discussions of jazz history on bbc radio and on television.

81.149.187.12 (talk) 13:02, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SpigotMap 14:15, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

use amoung african americans

shouldnt it be included that it is used by some african americans amoung themselves? 69.115.204.217 (talk) 18:05, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

You clearly haven't read this article. futurebird (talk)

Use on 4chan

Used so frequently, I think this is noteworthy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.149.162.210 (talk) 16:19, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.110.123.49 (talk) 16:07, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Nigger Toes

Growing up in a family that came from North Carolina and that, quite frankly, was very racist, I heard the phrase "Nigger Toes" used to refer to Brazil Nuts. Would it be appropriate to add that to the "Derivations" section of this article? I don't have an external reference other than personal experience. Stagger415 (talk) 17:35, 17 August 2010 (UTC)stagger415

It certainly was known elsewhere (my mother reported it from St. Louis in the 1940s; here's a cite for Nebraska, n.d.[11] also said it was used of the candies I called "root beer barrels."). You need a citation; I don't have JSTOR access where I now amDavidOaks (talk) 18:45, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Got one from Google scholar: Racism in Children's Rhymes and Sayings, Central Kansas, 1910-1918K Porter - Western Folklore, 1965 DavidOaks (talk) 18:59, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Merge with variant

I think nigger and nigga are the same word, pronounced differently, just as "gangster" and "gangsta". Do we really need two separate articles?

Of course if I'm wrong, then there are sources which will explain why the words are distinct, but the first source I found [12] says it's one word with two variants.

Reminds me of "smoking" as in, "The steak came off the grill smoking hot." Or Jim Carrey saying, "Smokin'!" --Uncle Ed (talk) 03:23, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Merge. Before MC Hammer had a show called Hammertime, the article was about his pop-culture catch phrase. Now it's removed and it only speaks of the show. The former info was merged with it then removed. So if we are talking about TWO different things and it doesn't get two articles, nigga and nigger should be in the same article but separated in it's own section as a different topic. I mean, this is just adding fire to the fuel folks (yes I know I didn't say fuel to the fire, I was being "ironical"! lol) Make a big deal about something and it will be a big deal. 63.131.4.149 (talk) 11:15, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Additional literary reference of note

In literature, another notable example is the James Bond novel Live and Let Die which uses the "n-word" numerous times. In an example of censorship the title of Chapter 5 of the novel, "Nigger Heaven", did not carry this title in any American editions published between 1955 and 2002. Otherwise, though, most editions of the book have left the terminology intact. The movie version omits all uses of the word, though the word "honky" is heard several times. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 15:57, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Usage in Russian Language

Folks, please, remember, that you are responsibile for what you writing on Wiki. If you are not sure about something, pls, don't write about it. In particular, if you are not a native Russian speaker, and know about it only from books or your university classes, please, don't write what you had heard about Russian language/ culture here. What is wrong in this article: 1. "which, despite its neutral denotation, is challenged" - in Russia this term is NOT challenged, because this is just a word, which denotes a black person. It doesn't have any derogatory meaning, and nobody is going to ban it. It is a part of Russian language. It is used freely. 2. "virtually-universal familiarity with US society’s racist usage of nigger" - almost nobody in Russia knows, what "ni**er" means. The overwelming majority of Russians are not familiar and don't care about racist problems in the US. The only English word a typical Russian (living in a city) knows is "fu**" (thanks to the Hollywood movies). 3. "Russian urban legends propose..." - What is the source? I never heard about such legends. 4. "chernozhopyi" - This is an adhoc offence, rather than a common slur like the N-word. Also, I believe, it usually targets people from North Caucasus, rather than black people. So, how is it connected with the topic of the article? 5. "for Asian people, the Russian language contains different, specific derogatory and racist slurs" - please, don't confuse Russian language and English language. In English language, I believe, there are racial and ethnic slurs for any nation in the World. In Russian language there are no such slurs at all. We definitely don't have anything, which role is similar to the role of the N-word, or of the C-word (for Chinese). In Russia there were never racial issues, and so a reason for any racial slurs to appear. Simple like that!

Usage in Bulgarian Language

In Bulgarian just as in all Slavic languages, there's no offensive word with the same or similar word as "nigger" in the US English. The word to describe a black person is "neger" [негър] and does not contain offensive or pejorative meaning. The direct translation of the term "black" does not have the same relation as the meaning in US, and is far from the meaning of a person with an African descent. It is pronounced as "negah" or "negar".

Restore ref to 'niggard'/'niggardly'

Archive 3 thread 4 mentions this, something apparently completely removed from the current text. Yes, it is etymologically unrelated however it is not so either in the popular consciousness in terms of either current usage or etymology and hence a debunking mention is called for. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 12:16, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if there re any sensible source for this? I would love to see some discussion on how these words are used as a stand-in or as a kind of "test" from time to time despite not being related. futurebird (talk) 14:26, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

(adjusted indentation, ignored typo). OED of course has the reference etymology for niggard, and there are plenty of literary references, Shakes. etc. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 15:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree, because saying things like "nappy headed" or niggardly as a white when they aren't racist words and innocent people being fired when they use it in context to explain how blacks say the word or it's in music, etc. is not logical. I mean, Oprah said "honkin'" a few weeks ago on her show. Should she be fired, cus that sounds an aweful like "honky" to me and there is no sense in that!? (Oh, but I'm sure she didn't mean anything racist by it just like those who are educated use words like 'niggardly' correctly.) Like with children, women and race, it's always a one-sided double-standard but to make healthy articles, the "TRUTH" must be revealed and not be swayed one way or the other but nuetral. Just because they sound like a bad word doesn't make them one. I recall saying something about the "climax" of a song/show once and someone immediately thought I was talking sexual. I mean, really? See my point? Facts are facts and they should be included to enhance/improve and add to the articles transparency. One day, someone decided something was bad. Once a word affects someone else bad enough (of another race) we will say it's wrong too. We need to be ahead of it. New words/slang is created all the time, and eventually to avoid the stigma of this word, people will just create a new one to basically mean the same thing. Words like "white trash" and "whitey" are just as offensive. Yet in entertainment, we hear it and "laugh" it off. Life is living and learning from our ignorant mistakes, like slavery and terrorism. Thank you, have a nice day/night. 63.131.4.149 (talk) 11:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit Request

In the article section entitled "Derivatives:"

The words "...his prolific use of niggerin tape."

Should be "...his prolific use of nigger in tape." (space added between words)

Or even better: "...his prolific use of nigger on tape." (unless, of course, it is a direct quote).

Stay Classy Wikipedia

Why in the world does an online dictionary need this article? This is a thinly veiled slap in the face to black people everywhere. Is there a page on "honkeys"? "Chinks"? Disgusting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.61.68.154 (talk) 01:04, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

• Honky
• Chink
• Things don't have to be tasteful to be notable. Ignoring offensive topics won't make them go away. --Onorem♠Dil 01:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

When will "honky" and "cracker" and other hateful words towards whites as well as hate words against mexicans and arabs ("wetbacks" and "sandrats") be 'Part of a series of articles on Discrimination'? Let's be consistant before it's too late and years from now we are saying let's bury those other racists words. For that matter, words related to homosexuals, overweight, elderly and a bunch of others are discriminating, bigoted and hate crime/speech. Let's not just single out one race, that is what makes it so WRONG! My opinion is to "flag" those articles (slurs) as well. Thank you! P.s. Drawing attention them won't make them go away either. 63.131.4.149 (talk) 10:54, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. That template has now been removed. It had been added a couple weeks ago by a new user who also added the template to the Hipster (contemporary subculture) and Hillbilly articles. --Onorem♠Dil 11:10, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, I see no reason why that template shouldn't be here, and on those other articles as well. Or to put it another way, it seems reasonable to me that all the articles about racial, sexual, weightist (etc) slurs should be included in a series on discrimination. I guess that's something to be discussed on the talk page for the relevant portal. garik (talk) 11:15, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I think the sidebar should be restored; it's a useful project. DavidOaks (talk) 11:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I was more comfortable removing it from the one slur article it was still on instead of adding it to countless others without discussion. I have no opinion either way if another section should be added to the template for slurs. --Onorem♠Dil 11:28, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Good points/ideas. Here are my additional thoughts: 1. Include a section about double-standards regarding the use of other slurs unrelated to nigger but just as "hateful" and how it affects other races. 2. Include other slurs along with the discrimination series that this one had been categorized as, not just this one. 3. Illustrate how (as per the "white nigger" topic below) other races consider 'niggers' within their own race, not just blacks (aka Africans - or other nations that blacks originate from). Give examples of what/how additional nationalities/races see themselves as niggers/niggas and why (if nothing other than a term of endearment among some). Thank you, and have a great day! P.S. I left examples out this time, and can source my discussion topics with other cites about these topics being essential/important in understanding the use of any/all racial slurs and it's negativity on an entire human race in general. 63.131.4.149 (talk) 19:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Niggers referring to slaves from Niger and Nigeria

• I thought the term 'Nigger' comes from the slave trade with Africa, bringing people from Nigeria and the country 'Niger' (right next to Nigeria) to USA for labor.

  Niggers should be people coming from the country Niger. The Niger is a river flowing through Niger and Nigeria. They named the river after the country, and perhaps in African history, Niger and Nigeria may have been one at one time. 23:24, 15 November 2010 User:98.254.64.146

Interesting idea. I hope you will forgive me for wikilinking the names of the countries in your post so I can give them a quick check out. Steve Dufour (talk) 15:52, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

From Niger River: "It is often assumed, without evidence, that Niger derives from the Latin word for "black", niger, but it would have been more likely for the Portuguese explorers who first wrote this name on their maps to have used the Portuguese word, negro, as they did elsewhere in the world. In any case the Niger is not a blackwater river, which was the motivation for all other rivers that were called black. (See Rio Negro.) Some have rationalized that 'black' may have referred to the color of the people living on the river, but this did not happen to any other river in Africa. Therefore it would seem that the similarity between the name Niger and the Latin word niger is either coincidence, or that knowledge of Latin influenced the spelling of an indigenous name like "ngher." [earlier said to be the origin of the word]." So your theory doesn't seem right as the main source of the word, although the two things might have re-enforced each other. Steve Dufour (talk) 15:57, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Could be a change in dialect and speaking errors over time. As other words in languages have origins from a specific place, as it's passed on, takes on minor changes eventually but still coincide and derivative of the same word. Biblical words are a good example, as they are translated later and may take on differences. Also, sometimes words are spoke in error and then take on different spellings later. (Ie. Tomatoes, tamaters, 'maters, etc. are all the same thing depending on where you live.) That could have been the case with Niger, Negro, Nigger, etc. Just a thought, but I agree with your analysis/theory somewhat. Makes plausible sense. Would require historical research. 63.131.4.149 (talk) 19:57, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

there where people of portugal, and Spain that spoke latin, Roman Catholic did their masses in Latin starting from the rise of the roman empire, and it is possible that scholars also learned Latin as a secondary language around that time. Quite often adventurers where schooled individuals. Without assurance of this, but it would seem plausible that a Latin derivative is given to the name. But I can't say exactly WHEN Niger and nigeria have been found and put on a map, and IF, even if they where known for a long time, they did not undergo a name change due to increased popularity in travel by uninformed travelers. (kind of like the introduction of potato chips and fries. Go to England and to them chips are fries, and fries are chips).

The word 'Nigger' (with double 'g') as we know it was most likely invented in USA, as the original names (people from niger and nigeria) would probably be written different. (I suspect 'nigerians', and 'nigers'). via 98.254.64.146 @ 18:21, 18 November 2010

63.131.4.149 (talk) 06:37, 19 November 2010 (UTC) [added prior editors info above for previous two unsigned posts]

• nigger derivate from necro/necrosis "color"-no lux/chorume (latin word)!

White Nigger (restored entry/topic previously removed)

"In Irish English, the colloquialism "nigger's knackers" describes prunes." What? No one in Ireland uses this phrase. I've lived in Ireland for 30 years & never heard it once. Special:Contributions/89.124.84.10|89.124.84.10 (User talk:89.124.84.10|talk) 22:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC) Revision as of 22:11, 8 November 2010 (edit) 89.124.84.10 (talk)

How come this article is devoid of any mention of how the irish people use to be called white niggers? 22:34, 8 November 2010 99.238.18.213 (talk)Revision as of 22:34, 8 November 2010 (edit) (undo) 99.238.18.213 (talk)

[13][14][15][16][17][18][19] 63.131.4.149 (talk) 15:45, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 78.86.153.168, 1 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

78.86.153.168 (talk) 04:19, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Please state what you would like changed specifically.

Edit request from 98.228.215.95, 3 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Please change "In the British television series Fawlty Towers, in the episode “The Germans”, Major Gowen uses "niggers" to describe West Indian cricketers." because it is incorrect, the comedy in the show comes from Major Gowen seeming to object to the use of the racist term, only to then use another, more specific racist term. A suggested change would be: "In the British television series Fawlty Towers, in the episode “The Germans”, Major Gowen objects to the use of the term "niggers" to describe West Indian cricketers; he specifies that you can't call them "niggers" to some relief of Mr. Fawlty, then says "No, these people are wogs!" using another racist term for Indians." Easily referenced from the show: http://www.fawltysite.net/

98.228.215.95 (talk) 23:00, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Partly done: It seems like such a reference (especially just a singular reference in only one episode) is 1) not improtant enough to be used here, and 2) would require such a complex description that it's not worth including. So, I just removed the sentence entirely. Qwyrxian (talk) 08:27, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

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